Tuesday Feb 24 2009 CrossFit The Woodlands WOD
Which one would you rather prefer. A strength base with a negative in your cardio. Or a good Cardio base with a negative against your strength. Is one easier or faster to develop than the other. This seems to be a good question given the past couple posts. Lets us know what you think by clicking on the comments tab in the bottom right hand corner.
5 rounds of:
O.H. squat x 15
Sprint x 200m
Comment by Adam Drake
It’s a physiological fact (I can post references if desired) that conditioning is quicker to develop than raw strength. We see this every time somebody new comes to train in the gym. They can quickly start doing the regular WODs, but the weight must be scaled. It’s not that X minutes of cardio that gets them, it’s the weight.
I’d prefer to maximize my fitness but if I had to pick one I’d choose a strength bias since it’s harder to train. I could always increase my conditioning relatively quickly.
Comment by James
Adam, it’s hard to argue with your logic, but I can’t help but include muscular endurance into the equation. Personally, I think I’d rather have less muscular strength available over a longer period of time, than more strength available for a very short time before total fatigue sets in (like a strict bodybuilder during his first CF workout).
Comment by Scott
We always see people’s work capcity increase very quickly. Although I don’t take the scientific approach, I’m sure there are studies out there that can prove this. The trick is to aquire both. What constitutes good strength. What constitutes good conditioning. There has to be something to test this ya. Is it being able to do Fran under 5min. Running a 6 min. mile. What about strength? One thing I like to look at is if someone can do 3 x 10 deadhang pullups. If a 150lb guy comes in. I look at him and say, “can this guy D.L. double his bodyweight, squat 1 3/4 times his bodyweight, and bench 1 1/2 times his bodyweight. If so, that is a good definition of proportional strength. At least in my book. Most numbers over that then you are starting to get into the elite range. Remember, we are looking at general fitness. If I can get a guy running the 400 in 60sec. I’m very very happy with that. But, if you are doing it in 90sec., I would consider that pretty shitty. Run it in 1:15, now you just suck. Start getting closer to 60sec or below now you are good. To get to “Great” in might be pretty damn hard or impossible. At least that is what Dave Tate says. I would tend to agree with him. Those are just some personal numbers I like to look for when a young “MAN” comes to the facility with dreams of getting proper strength and conditioning.
Comment by Melissa Bentley
Just because I’m curious, do those same metrics (D.L double BW, Squat 1 3/4 BW, Bench 1 1/2 BW) apply to women as well? Or I am just expected to be about 45lbs lighter?
Comment by Jeff D - m/36/5'10"/205
I actually think a preference here would be subjective, based on an individuals existing strengths and body type. For me, I already have a strength base and am essentially at those thresholds for dead lift, squat and bench. While I run well for my size, it is definitely the area where I need more improvement (~70 second 400 m). I know I could improve that if I ran more 400’s, but then that becomes specialized training.
In contrast if you bring in someone who has a much slighter frame, they’re much more likely to do well with the cardio portion, but struggle more with the strength portion (or just struggle, since many of the workouts are strength and cardio combined). This person would benefit with more focus on building strength, and then taking advantage of their existing cardio base.
The goal of crossfit is to have a broad and general level of fitness, so both areas should be contantly addressed, thus giving me more exposure to and opportunity to improve my cardio, and the slighter fellow opportunity to improve his strength. I don’t know that there needs to be a specific bent in the programming.
Comment by Aaron
FANTASTIC POST JAMES! i agree 100% too.
i’d take agility, conditioning, mobility, flexibility, balance, speed, etc. over the ability to benchpress a car any day. i’ve found that the more strength/mass i gain – the more those areas of my fitness suffer. i prefer to only gain the muscle required to do the conditioning work at an optimal level. there comes a point in strength training where the muscle you gain will limit your optimal level of performance in conditioning/metcon work.
Comment by Scott
Melissa, I have different parameters for girls. Long dark hair, white teeth, great eyes, 34 24 36. Usually when they come in like that the strength and conditiong goes out the window. 8p
Comment by Melissa
Yeah I know. Melanie Wells is the iconic ideal…but I have no hope in hell of ever getting those metrics!
Comment by Daniel
Kinda like I’m going to have a hell of a time meeting Scott’s metrics for proportional strength:
400# deadlift
350# squat
300# bench
60sec 40
Comment by Aaron
lol poor daniel!
Comment by Daniel
Hey, I thought I was doing good, but then my best 400m time means I just suck =).
Comment by Aaron
everything is relative.
Comment by Melissa
yeah Daniel, I only wish I fell somewhere between “pretty shitty” and “just suck”. As it stands, I’m somewhere between “go home already” and “just shoot yourself”.
By putting impossible targets in front of us, he has the right idea because it means he has neverending repeat business. On the flip side, he is stuck with my mediocre performing non “34-24-36″ self until the end of time.
Comment by Will B
Actually, I can’t do any of it. On top of that I am having a problem with the math. My mind hurts on top of my muscles.
60 seconds = 1 min = Very Happy
90 seconds = 1 minute 30 seconds = Pretty Shitty
1:15 = how many minutes and seconds? = Just Suck
So, is “Just Suck” better than “Pretty Shitty”?
DAMN IT! I just want to know where I rate.
:p
Comment by Aaron
1:15 is halfway between 1 and 1:30
so maybe….”pretty sucky”?
Comment by Adam Drake
I chose strength because it’s easier to tack on the conditioning at a later date. Ideally everybody who doesn’t do sport-specific training will be a well-balanced athlete and maximize all the aspects of fitness.
Strength is definitely where I have the most room for improvement and I’ve been working on it for the past couple months. One day I’ll get to the 2xBW DL, 1.75xBW squat, 1.5xBW bench, 60sec 400m, hopefully by the end of the year. I’d also like to have a sub 17:00 5k so we’ll see how that works out.
Comment by David
I cant say that i am an expert on this topic but from what (literature) i have read i have come to the conclusion that type 1 muscle fibers grow at a slower rate than type 2 muscle fibers. Type 1 muscle fibers are also more active during cardio than your fast twitch type 2 muscle fibers. Because of this it would seem that your weight training and strength would be easier and quicker to increase. But at the same time i can say that i personally am more gifted in the strength and raw power area of fitness and so far crossfit has repeatedly kicked my ass day after day. In my own opinion i would have to say that i would give up a little of my strength so that i would not constantly be exposing my breakfast to scotts camera every morning. As seen on the homepage…for those of you that are wondering…those are tangerines